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Please Read: Recess is now an 18+ event

NerdNYC's quarterly gaming event

Postby Rym on Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:11 am


I (along with Scott) manage and work with large events (much larger than Recess) in a professional context. I'm the "Director of Panels and Workshops" for Connecticon, for example, with a turnstile attendance around 18,000. I have no role in NerdNYC other than attending events, and I do not speak on behalf of NerdNYC or any of its officers. But I do speak as a professional event manager.

I don't think everyone here truly grasps the difficulties in juggling event insurance, venue restrictions, fire code, liability, and the like. It takes a great deal of time and money to handle these things correctly.

Many smaller groups get around these concerns by not worrying about them. Larger groups hire people to manage them. NerdNYC is between these two levels: the hardest possible place to be.

Ignoring them isn't an option. Lawsuits and other nasty eventualities aren't super common, but the risk to the individual people who make awesome things like Recess happen are very real. The liability can become personal, and I've known individual people who were faced with extreme personal hardship as a result of it.

Would you be personally willing to risk all of your own savings (and more) for a gaming night? Is that a reasonable expectation of anyone?

The other side isn't feasible either. Do you want NerdNYC spending all of its money on lawyers and administration? Would you pay double or triple (or more) to change things? The next "level" of professionalism/corporation is a HUGE difference from what you have now, and comes with all of its own baggage.

Organizers of events like this have been sued personally in the past. It's messy. It sucks. I've known some of them personally.

I am not a lawyer, and cannot give legal advice. But I can tell you exactly why things like this happen. For example, event liability insurance is often substantially cheaper where minors are excluded. Larger venues often provide such insurance as part of their space usage contract, but smaller venues do not. Many events in New York City in particular have far less insurance than they think they do, as they are often unaware of the lack of said insurance in small venues. I have no idea what 440 Studios has or provides, but generally one can assume that small venues have nothing in place for you.

ASCAP is another surprising concern. Again, larger venues often cover it, but small ones do not. Playing music at an event can get you in real trouble depending on the venue's existing relationships. Figuring it all out isn't easy.

Fire code stuff is a huge concern. I've had the fire martial walk into events I've helped managed and watched them count individual heads in a random room. They have the power to shut down an entire event at any time if they see fit, and can show up anywhere.

There are different kinds of event liability insurance, and also different actions event organizers can take that may or may not undermine said insurance. It's easy to screw up and not actually be covered if something happens.


TL;DR version:
Basically, in my professional opinion, based on everything I've seen and read, NerdNYC is doing the best they can reasonably be expected to do in regard to this particular issue. If you want a neutral (again, I have NO professional connection to NerdNYC and do NOT speak on their behalf in any way) opinion or have any specific questions about the complications of event management, I'd be more than happy to answer them.
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Postby dorje on Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:55 am


BaronHelix wrote:Suspire, I don't think calling it a boycott is accurate. It sounds more like dorje is sad that participation has been taken away as participating would cause more hurt feelings among family members than attendance is worth.


Yes, thanks, Baron. Of course I'm not calling for a boycott. Please by all means, if you are over 18, go and have a great time. If Recess wasn't a great thing, would anyone care? No.

Not going isn't just about hurt feelings, but I thought that would be the explanation most likely to get through.

I think nerdnyc loses more than it gains by this, and not because any parents who don't show. But since I can't put that in dollars, it's a subjective observation.

Oh, and Baron, you can cuss all you want without being send to the corner this time. :)
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Postby Questionor on Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:34 pm


This rule change does not affect me directly.
I greatly appreciate all the work the staff of Nerdnyc does to make recess and other events happen and I'm quite happy they found some solution to enable recess to happen at all at this time even if it is not a perfect solution.
I'm saddened that because of this change there are people who cannot go whether because they are too young themselves or not.
I hope in the future a better solution is found that can include more people. If there is one, I'm sure the staff of Nerdnyc will find it and take advantage of it.
A significant price increase would also not really affect me directly.
I do not think significantly raising the price as suggested is a better solution (though I won't say it is a worse solution either) as this would also exclude people as I'm sure there are numerous attendees who could not afford a significant price increase even if I can afford one.
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Postby Seth on Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:58 pm


Rym wrote:I (along with Scott) manage and work with large events (much larger than Recess) in a professional context.
......
(Lots of stone cold truth)
.....


That.
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Postby BarkingAlien on Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:01 pm


I completely understand Mr. and Mrs. dorje (heh) and personally I will miss you both, along with Kid dorje (isn't that a famous Western? Legend of The dorje Kid? No? It should be.).

It's funny (in a quirky but not ha-ha way) that the first thought I had on hearing this news was actually, "Oh sh_@! Tavis!", followed by, "Oh sh_@! And dorje! And the two gals from my Muppet game. And one of them had a brother! And..."

I don't have kids myself as I've noted before but I seem to know a lot of people at RECESS who do. I felt bad for them before I even began to think, "This must have been something NerdNYC needed to do or they wouldn't be able to continue with RECESS". Now that I have had time to process it, my thoughts haven't really changed. My main feeling remains that this sucks for those who have kids and love bringing them, don't have kids but love seeing them and yet it is what it needs to be for now.

Hoping for a better situation in the very near future,
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Postby Previ on Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:36 am


Over the past few years I've attended almost every Recces with my daughter and her friend or two. So this comes as a great disappointing to me. I haven't told her yet.

I've been reading the posts here and avoided saying anything myself because I felt I would be way too negative and mean about it. Although I see both sides of the problem. I'm probably wrong but I just feel that there has to be another solution to the problem. Whether it would of been another location or another Borough. I'll stop. I feel the negativity coming on and I know the organizers do not need people to troll the forums.

At this point I'm totally torn. Do I go on my own or just find another activity to go to with my daughter.
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Postby flojin on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:11 am


I need to stay away from this thread!
Last edited by flojin on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jenskot on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:16 am


I'm working on a response to many of the points brought up as well as hoping to further explain the situation where possible. In the meantime I would like to politely ask everyone to slow down if possible. People being upset is completely understandable but we don't want the thread to flame out. More soon.
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Postby flojin on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:20 am


I will say on the board's behalf, that if half the passion I invested in my feelings about this issue had gone toward making nerdnyc a better place, and if others did the same, we could probably find a way to make all this work out.
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Postby zuk on Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:34 pm


Other than the initial "Bummer" comment, I've largely stayed out of this. Yes, as a parent (and thank you for the incredibly kind words Cawshis) I am disappointed. Rather than lash out or belabor the intentions of any individuals, I'd like to offer a parallel story for context.

I started Nassau Board Game Alliance 5 years ago and we are about 45-ish people strong (obviously much smaller than this group). Couples, singles, parents, non-parents, we have all sorts. One board game night a few years ago my kids were having a very "kids" night. They were very disruptive to the procedings and I was very self conscious about the experience that everyone was having. I spoke to the attendees that night and apologized profusely. After speaking to a couple of the parents in the group, I made an announcement that the game nights were going to be kid free. I made a commitment to the group that if I were hosting, I'd have a babysitter and that they would be away from the action except to say good night to everyone (which everyone enjoyed). If we were at someone else's house, we'd either get babysitting at home or in one person's house, we would come late enough to just basically put them right into bed at that house and then take them home when we were done. This decision excluded our annual New Year's Eve party where we arranged for babysitting for everyone's children. Also there was no age assigned to it. If the kid was old enough (like JWare's brood), and actively participated in the games, then they were welcome. I was looking forward to when Li'l Zuk (9 yrs old now) was old enough to really be able to participate.

Since that decision was made a few years ago, more of our group has had kids. Not everyone, but more. I had noticed that one of our original members was no longer coming to the events and when I asked them, they first told me that they were tired at the end of a week and with the kids it was becoming more difficult to stay up. After I pressed, they admitted that the policy was one of the reasons they weren't there. This saddened me terribly. I am a parent and I can deal with my kids when they get into one of those moods. But everyone else shouldn't have to. But now I saw that the position was affecting someone enjoying the experience of game night. That pained me immensely.

I can't please everyone, I know that. I'm going to go out to the members of our group again and ask them to honestly comment on what they'd like.

This was not posted to make a point that I am in favor or not in favor of this policy. It was just done to show that these decisions are not easy and that everyone is impacted in some way or another.

I love NerdNYC and this position does not change that in any way.
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