Why Play "the Bad Guys"?

[Patmos]

Playing bad guys does have advantages, but its tricky.

I played in Hertzy's Council of Thieves game last year and man we wer right bastards, the entire party was neutral or below. Now minus Saif's ridiculously accurate portrayal of a evil cleric (read: serial killer, which still haunts my dreams) The group found its evil beat under the guise of power, sure we'd hurt and kill and manipulate things, but our end goal was something we thought as a positive! We were a stabilizing force on the city one of law and order (just on the totalitarian side of things) and once we consolidated everything under us things would get better for everyone.

Its like Doctor Doom he wants to rule the world not out of malice, he does it because he honestly thinks that he would be better at running it then everyone else. That mentality gave me at least (who has a hard time playing evil in video games in any fashion) sort of a guideline a carte blanc for a end justifies the means philosophy, instead of a mass murdering let the world burn villian.

Oh and as for the Hodre/Alliance it really always felt as if the Alliance were the villians to me, they come off so intolerant and that King is a straight up racist and warmonger. The Horde at least to start seemed misunderstood, seeking attonement a new leaf or a path forward. Although i think they have done away with that now with the promotion of Garrosh.

[Leftahead]

As it happens, the most recent Radiolab is all over this, with an episode they're calling 'Bad'. It's fantastic:

http://www.radiolab.org/

As far as video games go, I've never really thought that any of those BioWare games actually let you play a 'bad guy'. You can be a dick about saving the universe, or you can be pleasant about it, but you can't sell humanity out to the Reapers in exchange for your own slave-world or anything. The Fallout games, though... you can go in the direction of being a genuine human monster in those. I've played through the 'evil' arcs to see the endings and get the Achievements, but it always felt like work (especially because it was always my second or third play-through), while the initial exploration as a 'good guy' was actually fun. It's interesting to me that my immersion is totally different even though the game is the same: as a 'good guy', a felt like I was really there working towards a goal, but on the later 'bad guy' play I was very conscious I was just in a big electronic skinner box and that I wasn't doing anything actually real-life evil.

On the tabletop, I suppose the argument that GMs who do a good job are embodying evil, but I've always felt it was so that the PCs could knock it down and save the day. The worse you act, the sweeter their inevitable victory (and that's the real challenge, creating tension when there's a tacit agreement they're eventually going to win), and the more fun everyone has. I LOVE it when the PCs finally completely destroy the Big Bads I've spent hours working on and feel great about it. It makes the prep time worthwhile.

[Mk1]

If I end up playing a bad guy in a table top game, I find I usually converge on one of two broad archetypes, because those are the ones I (for whatever reason) find fun to play and palatable:

1. The "grizzled professional" that might do horrible (but highly effective and practical) things if the job calls for it and if the price is right, but he's not going to take a job burning down orphanages.

2. A thuggish, Jayne-like sort, played at least partially for laughs, that will nevertheless almost always go along (albeit kicking and screaming, or bitching and grumbling) with the rest of the party in doing the right thing.

I think they're both a way for me to react to things I sometimes get tired of in the games I play in, like a DM who expects the players to take a high road no matter how much crap he dumps on them, or spending too much time playing the character who's the "adult supervision" of the group.

Anything darker than that really doesn't work for me... Neither does the sort of "evil" you can be in games like Knights of the Old Republic, where being evil just means being hateful, spiteful, sadistic and psychopatic for the hell of it.

[ScroTim]

i knew that giving this to you guys was a great decision. you seriously never stop amazing me with your awesomeness and your insight. i, unfortunately, got sucked up in bullshit at work and this conversation is long since dead, but the stuff you guys wrote is great and has given me a lot to think about.

of course, i think i was trying to think on it less, but whatevs.

[Tav_Behemoth]

Here's an interesting opportunity to explore playing the bad guys as part of an art installation! Forwarding a message from Brian Droitcouer, the organizer of the gallery show; PM me if you're interested.

I’m looking for some volunteers to play D&D in a gallery on three days in March, as a re-enactment of “Lawful Evil, ”a work by artist Brody Condon . The dates are 3/15, 3/17 and 3/24, and the location is 319 Scholes, located in Brooklyn between the Grand St and Montrose St stops on the L train. Here are a few things to consider if you’re interested in taking part:

- You have to be willing to play in a public space and ignore distractions. Players should not engage in conversation with visitors to the gallery; it would interrupt gameplay and erase the barrier between the work and the audience (which is already precariously thin in this piece). Ignoring distractions will be toughest on opening night, when the gallery will be crowded. I anticipate fairly light traffic on the other two days.

- You should be willing to role-play. Players are not expected to “perform” their characters, but are expected to keep in mind that the title of the work is “Lawful Evil.” Players must make in-game decisions in character according to the definition of the LE alignment.

- Different DMs may be running different versions of D&D. If you have strong preferences about which edition you want to play, please let me know so I can try to pair you with the right game. If you usually play a very recent or very old edition of D&D in which “lawful evil” is not a standard alignment, you should bone up on how it is defined in editions from AD&D to 3.5/Pathfinder. Pre-generated characters will be provided at each table; contact me if you want to bring your own and we’ll see if it can be worked out.

- If you’d like to take part but can’t commit an entire Saturday afternoon, let me know. I can try to set up shifts.

- Pencils, scratch paper, and a limited quantity of dice will be provided. Those who prefer to play with minis are asked to provide their own.

- Snacks will be provided; you are invited to put in advance requests for their favorites.

The specific dates/times are:
Thursday, March 15, 6 p.m. to 10 p.m.
Saturday, March 17, 12 p.m. to 6 p.m.
Saturday March 24, 12 p.m. to 6 p.m.

Thanks for considering!